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Cashflow Manager

  • 21 posts
  • # 53888

Hi all,

I am just starting up my own business and wanted a little advice.

I have done the level 2 computerised exam so have used Sage Line 50 but wasn't planning on buying the software just yet as it's quite expensive and I figured that as i'm only concentration on sole traders at the mo I could probably get away with just using excel.
Anyway I went to see a local accountant last week to tout for some business and he recommended a package called Cashflow Manager and says he can sell me it for just £100. Says alot of his clients use it and it's really simple to use.

I just wondered if anyone had any experience in using it and what they think? Also, could I use it for several clients?

Thanks
Mandi

  • 2 posts
  • # 54188

I once had a brief look at this product and decided it was not much better than a good, structured spreadsheet.

I don't know the product well enough to give specific advise - but be careful that whatever you buy meets your needs. For example, if this was purely a cashbook it may not facilitate transactions such as journals and could not, therefore, be used to maintain a full set of accounts.

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  • # 54189

Hi Mandi

Excel spreadsheets are not a good way to do double entry bookkeeping .  If I was a client I would not except my accounts done by excel sheets. That is a personnel view.  

With regards to Cashflow manager You would be better to save your money and look at a decent software.

Cashflow manager is nothing more then a spreadsheet you could design yourself and not worth a £100 pounds .  I do not know any accountant that uses it. To be honest he sounds like a seller, otherwise he would have recommend it and not tried to sell it you.  Always avoid accountants selling you software as they are taking a cut.  I would recommend that you do your research and buy off direct sellers at least that way you get the right version.

Edited at 03 Feb 2011 05:20 PM GMT

  • 698 posts
  • # 54195

Hi Mandi

With regards to cashflow software I agree with Sarah and only ever use Excel and have a template that has held me in good staed over the years e-mail me at stuart.wildman@wellersaccountants.co.uk and I will send you the template I use.

With regards to doing sole traders on Excel, depending on the size of the business and number of transctions I do it all the time. Unlike limited companies as far as I am aware and I do stand to be corrected Sole traders especially small ones have no legal requirement to produce a balance sheet. So I normmally just use Excell to do an analysed cashbook. I also run a run Sales day book to ensure I pick up all their sales.

I then keep a sheet in the work book for the capital purchases which I can use to calculate the WDA where the AIA does not apply.

This then allows me to do an I.E. which i can transpose onto their SA form.

I hope that is of some help.

Kind Regards
Stuart

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  • # 54203

Hi Stuart

Yes you are right a very small 1 person sole trader mostly does not require a balance sheet for tax return.

I think this needs to be discussed further and it would be interesting to hear other members view, as it depends what your client expects or needs . 

Most sole traders even if they are under the threshold,  if all or most of their customers  are all vat registered , so will they be.  You would have to be a numptie,  if all or most of your customers were vat registered to pay out a extra 20% for all your goods and sevices you purchase as a sole trader, your client would be potentially making themselves uncompetive by adding 20% to their costs.  This would not be the case for all soletraders I know , but you it would be looked at on a individual basis. This needs to be accounted for in your Vat account as said below Cash Vat accounting does not mean you are not running Debtors and Creditors.  The HM as far as I know regard the work as complete when it the Invoice is raised, unless it can be proven it is Work in Progess and then this would be recorded in the balance sheet also.

The word Sole Trader and Self Employed can be misleading as not always a  1 person band.  I have several self employed business that are far bigger then some Ltd companies and have been around for a long time and are no more less important then a Ltd company,  they require a profit and loss and a Balance sheet report to run thier business.  There is far less red tape involved in completing a tax return , then having the companies House and the CT to do.

They sometimes Employ more people , run Debtors and Creditors , a  Paye System , and Vat .  Just because a sole trader is not a Ltd company does not mean they do not need a balance sheet.  How would they know what their real bank balance is if your records, and what I mean by that , a balance sheet shows if you are in trouble and can be used to make helpful plans and spot  where there is  potential l cashflow problems.   Their Debtors and Creditors Balances , what is the balance on the Vat and Paye at a point of time.  I admit most sole traders use vat cash accounting.  For example Cash Accounting for Vat does not mean you do not need to run a Debtors or Creditors.

Choosing  cash vat accounting as a method for return  needs to be looked at on an  individual basis , especially if a client is good at managing his creditors to 60 days which a lot are, but the same client   can also be very fast at getting their money in and use it for cashflow.

I hope this claifies why I think a Balance sheet is needed.













Edited at 04 Feb 2011 01:59 AM GMT

  • 180 posts
  • # 54212

I am a sole trader. A large proportion of my clients are VAT registered. I have a number of non VAT registered clients. I am not VAT registered.

Good to know (not!) that I now have a new qualification of "numptie"!

It is not as black and white as it seems and there is a big trade off between registering for VAT, even below the  threshold to reclaim VAT, against losing non VAT registered clients who cannot claim it back.

Example - register for VAT, claim back £2,000 in VAT on purchases, chase off 20 clients who pay £100 for self assessment because you are going to charge and extra £20 now to pay to the VAT man. And with it the goodwill and recocomendations?

Until that million pound contract comes knocking ( or perhaps the one big one which puts me into the 40% tax bracket and the VAT threshold) I'll stay non registered.

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  • # 54216

sarah said:


"Most sole traders even if they are under the threshold,  if all or most of their customers  are all vat registered , so will they be.  You would have to be a numptie if all or most of your customers were vat registered to pay out a extra 20% for all your goods and sevices you purchase as a sole trader, your client would be potentially making themselves uncompetive by adding 20% to their costs.  This would not be the case for all soletraders I know , but you it would be looked at on a individual basis. "





Hi Geoff

Thank you for your response.   I sorry if you felt I was going all sole Traders under the threshold a numptie for not registering for Vat .

It is an expression in Scotland and is used in that context of been a bit silly.  People use it up in the west of scotland  all the time as banter and it is not not taken literally.   I have been called it many a time by friends and even my husband.

I did explain and have  bolded in black what I said  "
if all or most of their customers  are all vat registered" . This would also mean in total income as well.  .The sole traders customer would be claiming vat back on their end. I also mentioned  "This would not be the case for all soletraders I know , but you it would be looked at on a individual basis. "   
 
Which as you have mentioned you would have to look at as it is not always black and white .  It is without saying that before a sole trader made that decision  any sole trader would need to the workings  and figure out if they could swallow the Vat for the small amount of customers they had left that were not vat registered, and if they did with Vat been at 20% they could still be better off.   A sole trader would know their own business as to whether it is something they could look at.

This is why each case would need to be looked at on an individual case.  It is hard to believe in these times someone would not change, if was in their favour. You do not need to lose your customers as you can swallow it as a cost if it is a benefit to the cash flow and costs as a  sole trader .  
Speaking for myself.  I rather it was in my pocket to spend , then in  the HM pocket or those MPs pockets for their second homes.











Edited at 04 Feb 2011 01:36 AM GMT

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  • # 54555

Stuart Wildman said:

“Hi Mandi

With regards to cashflow software I agree with Sarah and only ever use Excel and have a template that has held me in good staed over the years e-mail me at stuart.wildman@wellersaccountants.co.uk and I will send you the template I use.

With regards to doing sole traders on Excel, depending on the size of the business and number of transctions I do it all the time. Unlike limited companies as far as I am aware and I do stand to be corrected Sole traders especially small ones have no legal requirement to produce a balance sheet. So I normmally just use Excell to do an analysed cashbook. I also run a run Sales day book to ensure I pick up all their sales.

I then keep a sheet in the work book for the capital purchases which I can use to calculate the WDA where the AIA does not apply.

This then allows me to do an I.E. which i can transpose onto their SA form.

I hope that is of some help.

Kind Regards
Stuart”

Hi Stuart,

I was just going to create a new post, but came across you post regarding your excel workbook. 

I am looking to take on a new client who, as a sole trader (cis) doesn't have a dedicated bank account for his trade and just uses his personal account.  I want to avoid having to process all his personal transactions just to gain a bank reconciliation (unless he changes to a dedicated account) - if that is ok to do - and was wondering if there was any 'software' as such that isn't bank account but more income and expenditure orientated?

What do others do?

Many thanks

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