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WHAT YOUR PRACTICE LICENCE DOES AND DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO DO

  • 698 posts
  • # 80127

Hi all

This seems to come up time and again hopefully this outline will give members an understanding. What is written below applies only to your ICB practice licence if you are a member of another professional body e.g. the IFA their practice licence may cover you carry other services that compliment your ICB practice licence.


Getting right the limits of what you can and cant do is very important for two reasons. Firstly your PI insurance may become invalid if you carry out duties not within the scope of your practice licence and secondly it is against you professional conduct regulations of the ICB.


In order to carry out Payroll and Self Assessment you must have passed the exams AND paid the ICB for your upgrade otherwise you are qualified having passed the exams but as you do not have the backup the ICB technical support until you pay for the upgrade those items are NOT added to your practice licence.

 

Definition’s

Bookkeeping to Trial Balance is recording all transactions within the various ledgers. All reports not generated from the Trial balance is not considered to exceed the bookkeeping to Trial Balance (e.g. Aged Debtors, Aged Creditors bank reports.)


Producing reports from the Trial balance is exceeding Bookkeeping to Trial Balance (e.g. Income and Expense statements, Profit and Loss and balance sheet.)


Draft Accounts are final accounts that are not signed by the directors of the company and may the subject to adjustment and change.

 

AICB

  • Can carry out bookkeeping to Trial Balance on all business entities (Sole Traders, Partnerships and Limited Companies)
  • Can produce and file VAT returns
  • Can produce final accounts for a sole traders
  • Can carry out credit control on behalf of clients for all business entities
  • Can Produce cash flow forecasts for all business entities

 

If you have passed the Self Assessment Exam and upgraded your membership in addition to the final accounts you can also do their self assessment tax return.

 

AICB PM.dip

  • Can do all the above and in addition can calculate payroll’s and file the various payroll returns

MICB

  • Can do everything an AICB can do (Payroll and Self assessment Caveats apply)
  • Can produce a Fixed Asset register
  • Can prepare draft final accounts for Limited companies and partnerships.

Personally this whole draft final accounts area is the pointless bit as far as I can see basically we can prepare the accounts but we cannot submit them to companies house or HMRC. As most accountants have specialist software for producing final accounts they want the TB from bookkeepers with supporting evidence.

 

I think it would be far better worded can produce basic management accounts (i.e. produce a Profit & Loss Statement and Balance sheet) for clients and produce balance sheet control accounts for use by the companies accountants.

 

MICB PM.dip

  • Can do all the above and in addition can calculate payroll’s and file the various payroll returns

Level 4

  • Can do everything an AICB and MICB can (Payroll and Self assessment Caveats apply)
  • Can produce full management accounts for clients
  • Can file final accounts for Limited companies and partnerships
  • Can produce company and personal tax computations.

 
The above is my understanding if anyone has a different interpretation then please add your thoughts.

 

Please restrict your thoughts as to what we currently should be doing rather than what you think we should be allowed to do. I will remove any posts I believe are taking us off topic.

 

Kind regards

Stuart

  • Companion Fellow PM.Dip
  • Practice Licence
  • 1137 posts
  • # 80130

Hi Stuart 

Excellent post.

 I would like also if the ICB Education department could give backing to the Level 4 exams and clarify what Level 4 allows member to do under the PI insurance or as an employee.

I am not questioning the post below in relation to whether Level 4 info is correct, but I do feel there is confusion and I have not seen any official statement from the ICB for Level 4.  I stand corrected if that is not the case .  (If so I need to pay more attention in Class) . 

But all in all this should help members .  Maybe you ask if this could be a sticky at the top of the forum , because as you say the issue has raised itself a number of times.

 

  • 220 posts
  • # 80133

Uh oh.  Dos this mean I need to pay the extra for full membership so that I can do SA as Associate???  I wasn't aware of this - I've done a couple already.  OOPS.

  • 269 posts
  • # 80135

Hi,

Well I personally think someone from the ICB needs to confirm the level 4, as already mentioned in my post, I received an email yesterday, and I quote;


Thank you for your call this morning. I have checked with the Examinations Department and although the Level IV does contain accountancy modules, it is still very much a bookkeeping qualification and an Accountant will still be required to sign off your end work.

I for one would really like to know for definite what we can do on Level 4, to decide which route to take.

I am certain others would also like some confirmation to ensure they are working correctly to their Practice Licence and PII.


Kindest regards

Kerry

  • Member
  • Practice Licence
  • 128 posts
  • # 80137

Stuart Wildmansaid:


 

If you have passed the Self Assessment Exam and upgraded your membership in addition to the final accounts you can also do their self assessment tax return.

 




Hi - can someone confirm what the upgrade is for SA?  I can't see anything on the site which details this.  I am just waiting for my results on the exam.  

  • 220 posts
  • # 80141

LouPsaid:

Stuart Wildmansaid:

 

 

If you have passed the Self Assessment Exam and upgraded your membership in addition to the final accounts you can also do their self assessment tax return.

 



Hi - can someone confirm what the upgrade is for SA?  I can't see anything on the site which details this.  I am just waiting for my results on the exam.  ”



Hi Lou.

Just called ICB to clarify the situation, and they have assured me that you don't need to upgrade membership from Associate to full member in order to do SA returns.  This is not the case for Payroll though.  I would say to call them yourself just to make sure of your particular circumstances, but this is what I was told.

Andrea
x

  • 698 posts
  • # 80165

Hi Andrea and Lou

Sorry to have caused some confusion here on completion of payroll you have to pay for the additional letters PM.dip to be added (hence the upgrade fee this is not an upgrade from AICB to MICB but from AICB to AICB PM.dip or MICB to MICB PM.dip)

With the self assesment exam this does not appear to be the case as soon as you pass the exam it is an automatic addition.

To further clarify I have spoken to the ICB today and recieved an e-mail to confirm

Once you have completed level 4 you can complete an and file accounts for limited companies that do not require an audit.

Be careful of the terminology we can produce the final accounts the directors sign them off and then we can file them and produce the CT600.

Kind regards
Stuart            

  • 269 posts
  • # 80167

Stuart Wildmansaid:
“To further clarify I have spoken to the ICB today and recieved an e-mail to confirm

Once you have completed level 4 you can complete an and file accounts for limited companies that do not require an audit.

Be careful of the terminology we can produce the final accounts the directors sign them off and then we can file them and produce the CT600.

Kind regards
Stuart            ”


Hi Stuart,

Do you happen to know why i have an email stating otherwise?!

Kindest regards,

Kerry

  • 698 posts
  • # 80168

Hi Kerry

I am not sure why your e-mail stated otherwise. I did say when I was speaking to ICB that you had received an e-mail and outlined what it said as per your forum post.

I would would say we can be safe in saying that the e-mail you received was incorrect as both people who told me that on completion of level 4 you can file final accounts once the directors have signed them are very senior within the ICB.

You could always respond to the e-mail saying that we have been informed otherwise and ask them to clarify their repsonse.

Alternatively forward me the e-mail and I will ask where they got there info from. 

Kind regards
Stuart                           

  • 269 posts
  • # 80169

Hi Stuart,

After reading your post this evening, I have already forwarded the email back to ICB asking them to confirm what is correct, for my own peace of mind!

I am more than willing to forward you the email if you wish, or wait to see what reply I get back, I don't mind :)

The fact we don't need the Accountant, on completion of the Level 4, is music to my ears though; makes us far more appealing to potential clients. 

Thanks for you help and advice Stuart, it is much appreciated.

Kind regards

Kerry 

  • 698 posts
  • # 80172

Hi Kerry

Thanks for your reply there is no need to forward the mail to me as you have already asked the ICB for a response I will look forward to your reply once you get one from them.

Kind regards
stuart  

  • 269 posts
  • # 80351

Still no reply, despite another phone call to the ICB today Cry 


Why is it so hard to confirm what is correct, after all, it does have an impact on each and every person wishing to complete the level 4, on the assumption that we will not need an accountant?! Surely someone from the ICB must be able to give a definite answer to put all our minds at rest (or just mine, as the case me be!)................

Unfortunately, whilst I trust Stuart's advice, I have been told otherwise and would like some confirmation for my own records for future reference, in case I am ever pulled up for not working correct to my Practice Licence (when I finally pull my finger out and apply for one!), when indeed I thought I was.

Perhaps the ICB are just snowed under at the moment, in which case I shall try to be patient for a few more days, but I won't let it go! Wink


Kerry

  • 698 posts
  • # 80378

Hi Kerry

I totally agree with the tact you are taking. I think it is really important we have a clear and definate answer on the subject and that any contridictions are clarified fully.

It is important as no one wants to do level 4 start filing accounts etc then find out if their is a problem that we were not susposed to be doing that as it would invalidate our PI insurance and open a can worms that is best left closed so I am with you Kerry.

I know that the office at the ICB has been really busy over the last few days and the people that should be dealing with this and making the descions have been in  meeting solidly over the last few days as I have been trying to get hold of various people within the ICB myself concerning other issues.

They will get back to Kerry if not let me know I will see if I can prod a response to you from them.

Kind regards
Stuart

  • Fellow PM.Dip
  • Practice Licence
  • 150 posts
  • # 80633

Stuart Wildmansaid:

Level 4

  • Can do everything an AICB and MICB can (Payroll and Self assessment Caveats apply)
  • Can produce full management accounts for clients
  • Can file final accounts for Limited companies and partnerships
  • Can produce company and personal tax computations.


Hello Stuart,

Thanks for that overview. I think it works better than the graphic that the ICB have in the membership by examination area.

I just have one question regarding the level 4 section above. Could you or anyone else explain to me exactly what management accounts are. I always thought that it was being able to produce quarterly (or what ever time frame the client needed) P&L reports and other analysis reports so that management could make decisions on what way to take the company.

Thanks
Torben

  • 269 posts
  • # 80665

Hi,

I have been given some answers! Received a phone call and a nice lengthy email....

To sum it up; there may be times that an Accountant will be needed i.e. to sign off accounts for the purpose of 'Accountant's reports' requested by banks etc, or where the affairs are more complicated and you are not confident or qualified to deal with such issues, and of course for tax advice (but we already knew that one anyway).

My mind is at rest and I feel much more confident knowing that I will be working to the correct procedures Wink

Best regards

Kerry

EDIT: I am talking about the Level 4 qualification....


Edited at 09 Mar 2012 10:47 AM GMT

Edited at 09 Mar 2012 10:56 AM GMT

  • 33 posts
  • # 80674

Hi


That's nice to know as I have been thinking of sitting the level 4 myself.



JeanetteLaughing   

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