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• # 82365
• Fri 27 Apr 2012 12:11 PM

Hi all,
Please help me! I got my practice licence  last June and it expires end of June 2012 along with my insurance. I have a friend who has her own business which i did her books last year but it was only 6 hours work. She really doesn't need me to do them as her turnover is so small she can do the simplified version herself.
I have now just got a job working for another friend of mine, but this is not bookkeeping. It's more of an admin role, sorting out all of her paperwork, preparing invoices. Her turnover is less than 30k and it has been agreed for her to do the simplified tax accounts too. I get weekly work from this friend and this could develop into more.
Do i bother getting my practice licence and insurance renewed? I know if someone was to enquire i couldn't start working for them until this had been aquired, but i haven't had any enquiries in the last twelve months so wondering if it's a waste of money?
I have been targeting small business and if they can all do the simplified version, i am a waste of money to them!! I've read that the government are thinking of raising the turnover limit for simplified accounts too.
 I also know that if you just work for one person, you don't need a practice license as it's classed as working for them. Is that still right? Even if you invoice them for your time?
 Any advice would be appreciated

• Nikki
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• # 82368
• Fri 27 Apr 2012 12:23 PM

Hi Nikki,

Bookkeeping isn't for everyone, and neither is self employment.  If you think you've given the business your all and still don't seem to be making any progress, and if your hearts not in it anymore stop throwing good money after bad.

But on the other hand, if you think you can give a bit more, or try something different, keep going.  I'm not sure what your talking about with simplified tax accounts, but every business small and large need to keep good records.  Thats where we come in.  Businesses don't always know what they need to do, so our job is to educate them.  They might say that they can do it themselves, but doesn't this just open up another window of opportunity?  Can you offer a health check ever 3-6 months to make sure they're doing it right?  Can you offer self assessment returns?  What about payroll services?  For me it's about finding the angle, and there's always one if you look hard enough.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Kris 

• Kris McCulloch
  www.ayrshireaccountancy.co.uk
  
  Winner - BKN Most Innovative Accountancy Firm 2012
  
  Latest Blog Post: Bookkeepers Award 2015

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• # 82369
• Fri 27 Apr 2012 01:02 PM

Hi Nikki,

The work you mention you now have from your friend, preparing invoices - is this an employed position or self emplyed?

If it is self employed, you may still need your practice licence.  Or at least apply through the HMRC to be registered for MLR.

The following is a quote from HMRC when I was checking out MLR before I applied for my licence;
if you are to be
dealing with invoices this could be accounting services and so you may still
have to register. If you are checking ledgers, this would be the reviewing of
financial information, and would be an accounting service.


All the very best whatever you choose
Kind Regards

Paula

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• # 82382
• Fri 27 Apr 2012 02:34 PM

Thanks Kris and Paula!
I think i have lost my enthusiasm abit! Although getting this job, although it isn't technically bookkeeping has really perked me up! It's organizing which is what i love!
 What i mean by simplified is when HMRC just need the 3 line accounts. Income - expenses = profit. When i was a childminder, i didn't need to do a full set of accounts. It was agreed i just totalled my income, took off my expenses and hey presto! Lovely and simple.

And i think that is acceptable for a lot of very small businesses with their turnover under a certain amount.


The job i have just been taken on for is for a childminder who has so many children on her books and assisitants etc. I am taking off her all the paperwork so she can be freed up to just look after the children. This will include billing, sorting out her insurances, courses that she has to go on, risk assesments. filing etc. Practically her PA. If i only work for her, even though i am self employed do i need to have a practice license? I will be invoicing her monthly with my hours worked. I'm sure i read somewhere you didn't but i can't remember where i read it!!  The only bookkeeping i will be doing will be putting her receipts altogether and totalling her income for the year! But i will be working out her invoices to the parents monthly.   


Maybe it might be best to just keep it going just in case, but a lot of money to spend if i don't need to.


Also Paula i noticed your Business card says Office services. That's actually what i'm doing for this job, and was wondering about offering an office service out rather than just a ' bookkeeping service'. As so many self employed get consumed by paperwork that isn't just bookkeeping. And i LOVE organising!!! Is that what you offer?  

Edited at 27 Apr 2012 02:41 PM GMT

• Nikki
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• # 82389
• Sat 28 Apr 2012 12:00 AM

Hey Nikki,


I do think you would be better keeping your practice certificate.  The job you talk about as a self employment role will still come into an ASP category.


I too love organising.  I absolutely love filing.  I like taking a mess and sorting it out.  I aim to offer many office services, but realisically it is bookkeeping that businesses are looking for.


I am pretty new to bookkeeping, but have many years of experience at admin and credit control. I had hoped to find clients who required credit collections or admin etc, even students looking for dissertations to be typed up... but so far it is just bookkeeping enquries.  As I dont have much experience with bookkeeping it is certainly not my strong point and not what I would like to 100% promote.    


You can definately try to advertise your business with as a varied office services.  Its worth a try isn't it?  You may be surprised what you still need your practice licence for though.  Even without the bookkeeping - I still need it for credit control and being involved in invoicing.  Anything that relates to being an ASP.

All the best:)

Paula        

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• # 82399
• Sun 29 Apr 2012 11:21 AM

Thanks so much. That has really helped me!  It has also made me realise too that i would like to go into promoting my business for office services and not just bookkeeping. Might open a few more doors for me. especially as it's what i enjoy more!

I will definately keep my licence to be on the safe side. Thanks 


   

• Nikki
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• # 82530
• Wed 02 May 2012 10:45 PM

Hi Nicki 

I hope you do well in whatever you choose to do. 

From everything thing you say , you should actually be a employee and the childminder should be treating you as so.   The HMRC rules are that you must have more than 1 client or clearly advertising to get another.  Have a lot of evidence that you have other clients .  

Can you send in someone else to do this girls work  , if not you are an employee.   Our you using her equipment.  You can choose , change the time of anything you do and when you want to come in.   

I have seen many employees seriously fined for trying to treat someone as an self employed person rather than an employee. 


The best thing is to ring the HMRC and will let you know whether you qualify as Self employed or an employee.


 

• Sarah Douglas C.FICB

  HouseTree Business Ltd 

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• # 82535
• Thu 03 May 2012 10:39 AM

Sarah, thanks so much for that. I knew i had read it somewhere!!!! I only have one small client other than this job. The other client is just a 5 hour one off job a year. So technically i do have another client but it's so small! I think i'm going to ring HMRC just to clarify as i don't want her or me doing anything wrong.

I pick and choose my own hours with this client and work from home and from hers so it's more like i'm self employed i suppose. So difficult!! Thanks for advice. You seem to be in a catch 22 situation when you only have one client when you're just starting off!!!! 

• Nikki
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