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Hello, I've been looking on the internet trying to scope out what other bookkeepers charge for ther services in my area, HULL. & found no one really transparent they all say "book now for free consultation" but as i've passed my manual 1&2 & computerised 2 it's now time for me to get my membership status,practice licence & insurance. I would feel uncomfatable lying in a consultaion to wangle out there fee's so i'm asking for help! I feel it's important for me to be "priced right" for my area & i'm just talking about an hourly rate average. This is not intended to ailianate you non yorkshire's any imput is appriciated.
thank you
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Many will be glad that I wont be beating my fixed and value priced drum on this particular thread (though it is still really important in my opinion). What I do want to say is that pricing shouldn't be something that has geographical boundaries. The aim is not to emulate others prices, but to understand who your ideal customer is and how they will react to your pricing.
If you look at supermarkets (I know we're not selling products, but the theory is the same) there are different products pitched at different people. This is not to say one is better than another, but that they are aiming at different people. This is something we can carry over to our services. By finding your ideal client you can pitch your services at the right level and price point for them.
I have clients from all round the UK. They all pay the same prices for the same service. I have heard the arguments that different regions can command different prices, but I haven't really found it to be true for me.
There will always be people looking for a cheap service, if that’s where you want to be - great. You'll just need to learn to systemise well and really efficient. Equally, you'll always find clients who will pay top dollar for what they consider a better level of service. You'll also find someone at every level in between. Do you want to be a stack 'em high, or a high value bookkeeper? There is plenty of room for all, throughout the UK.
I know you probably wanted me to say, it's £15 an hour, but that’s over simplifying things.
Good luck.
Kris
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I agree with what lot of what Kris said but there is also specialisation.
If you specialise in a particular area you can generally command a higher price than if you are a jack-of-all trades so to specak. So if you choose to specialise in, for example, hotels then get to know the industry standards and processies really well so when you get a client you are a benefit from day one which adds kudos to your reputation.
I've been involved with charities and not-for-profits in one way or another finacially for 30 years. I'll be specialising in it once I get my practice license and I know I can command a higher fee than a general book-keeper because I know the processes well. I already have clients waiting to use me once I've got the bit of paper thats needed.
It's all about doing your markt research and finding an industry that you enjoy and don't mind putting in the 'unpaid' hours to keep abreat with whats going on in that industry which will help your clients over and above a general bookkeeper.
Kevin
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Good Evening Pigeon
I agree with Kevin and Kris - We should strive to add value and earn what we are worth - and take the race to the top and not race to the bottom - That is easier said than done !!
To be, really depressing - I have seen (ICB certified bookkeepers) advertising a service for sole traders for £7.95 a month !!!!!
Regards
Trevor
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thank you
I ask because curently i own a barbers & pricing is very regonal!!! & alot easier to find out as most of us have a clear price displayed. that being said when i opened i perposfully charged more then the others in my area because the 10 years leading up to it had taught me that even as much as a 20p increse can infuriate coustomers & if done regularly they'll leave! so i set them high but left it the same for 5 years. as this is the only industry i've worked in i feel it's wher i would be of most use, small sole traders trying to keep small local bussnesses afloat i've had mine 9 years & feel being in there shoes can deffinately bring something to the table.
I wouldn't even know where to start on fixed pricing as it seams a complex issue & with no experience to gage what that price should be i thought hourly would be an easier option for now.
In relation to the cheap priced bookkeeping i had an interesting chat with a taxi driver who told me he had an accounant who did his books & he paid £250 yearly for the service, me thinking well if thats an hour a month then self assesment on top it's pretty cheap. being nosey & digging a bit deaper turned out the accountant specialised in taxi drivers, had a spread sheet he requested them to fill in accurately, made them sign something to state they where fully responsable for that & didn't requst reciepts to check. i said to him so you do all your bookkeeping & he just helps with your forms? he said no he (accountant) does my books, I then told him that I thought the spead sheets that got printed off & handed to him once a month was really him doing his own manual bookkeeping.
If these cut price bookkeepers do something of a similar fasion to imput the figures from one spead sheet a month into something like sage with no comeback for there accuracy, the minimum may be from £7.99 per hour but doing 30mins work!?!
just a thought
pigeon
Edited at 16 Feb 2015 07:43 PM GMT
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At the end of the day you need to charge what you need for the lidestyle that you want to achieve.
I know a number of self employed people who are constantly moaning about net even earning national minimum wage but they have no one else to blame but themselves. If they were employed by someone they could complain to the HMRC but if you are self employed the buck stops with you. If you don't charge enough to live then that's your fault and noone elses.
So decide what you need to live at the standard that you want and work out how much you need to charge for that lifestyle and decide how you are going to justify that amount.
I live in Wales so houses prices are still fairly reasonable but I still need an income of at least £30,000 a year to get a mortgage to buy even a fairly modest house.
To amel that salary - together with hoiday pay, sick pay, pay for my continuing development courses and make a contribution to a pension - all of which I'd get if I was employed in don't work for less than £30 an hour or £200 per day. And those are my maximum discount rates.
Self employment and running a small business is about generating wealth and not about enslaving yourself to low wages and poverty.
If you as a book-keeper and accountancy professional can not run your own business profitably and giving yourself a good standard of living why should potential clients think you can do anything for them and their business?
If you think you can only get £7 or £8 an hour then forget aboutsetting up on your own and go and work for someone else. In this part of Wales an emplyed bookeeper with level 3 qualifications are getting between £20k and £25k a year.
Kevin
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Wow Pigeon - round here (South Wales) I have to pay £8 for a cut that takes 10 - 20 mins and I always leave a tip so £10 - So thats about £30 an hour per seat - is that about right ?
Regards
Trevor
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thanks kevin, you made alot of really good points there. I wasn't planning on going down the £7 an hour route mearly trying to put accross that it might be a minimum fee but for only 20/30 mins worth of work so in reality it's more like £14/£16 per hour.
I really appreciate you being so honest about your fee's & good luck with gaining your qualifications.
pigeon
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Hi Trevor, yes you are correct i'm a speedy little snipper & on a good day can turn out 5 people an hour :-)
pigeon
Edited at 16 Feb 2015 08:53 PM GMT
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Even at £15 per hour it's really cheap. If you do 35hrs a week, and bill 25 of those that’s still just £375 a week before costs and tax etc. Doesn't sound that great does it?
Fixed price works really well because it constantly encourages you to systemise and find efficiencies in your work, while charging hourly is really a disincentive to do this.
I'm with Kevin though, if you really want to charge hourly think £30/hr minimum.
You need to find another way to differentiate yourself. If you use price, then so will your clients. It's just a race to the bottom then because there will always be someone willing to work cheaper.
While your example of your current business in regional (I don't want to travel miles for a haircut) the modern world of bookkeeping and accountancy isn't. Many people are more than happy to have a remote bookkeeper. With changes in technology it's so much easier. No longer is your competition next door.
In short, forget price and differentiate another way. Here are a few article I wrote that may help:
http://www.bkpr.co.uk/stand-out-from-the-crowd/
http://www.bkpr.co.uk/find-your-ideal-client-and-solve-their-problem/
Kris
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HI all
I have been randomly reading posts with interest. I have almost finished level 2 aiming to go on to level 3 & payroll and then decide if its worth self employment or staying employed and just looking for a better / different job. This post caught my eye as I would have thought that charges would depend on the level of qualification reached. I work in admin at the moment and we pay loads for our payroll to be done so I think that is a premium area. I am also wondering where the line is between Accountant (who charges a fortune per hour) and BookKeeper surely if a company has a good qualified bookkeeper the Accountant will need to do less and charge less accordingly so a good bookkeeper should be an asset to any business or am I deluded. Can a level 3 qualified bookkeeper do final accounts for small companies and replace an accountant ?
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Hi Mandy
Level 3 will allow you to do final accounts for sole traders, partnerships and non-incorporated not for profits. You will not be able to do draft year end accuonts for limited companies or other incorporated bodies for that you will need both level 4 book keeping and one of the modules from level 4 diploma in financial management ( I can not remeber off-hand which one you need).
I was looking at doing the payroll diploma after I'd finished the level 4 book keeping but after chatting with some potential clients that are charities I've changed that.
They don't have an issue with payroll costs as there are a lot of very affordable outsourcers around - not to mention computer programmes - my own industry has a shortage of financial managemetn skills so I've dropped the payroll idea and I'll be going straight on to the Level 4 diploma in finacial managment.
This is mainly because in my field project managment and vcostings play a large part in the services I aim to offer.
Every industry is different s to what their needs are which is why specialising can add a premium to your fees if you think it through. For instance if you specialise in the construction industry I would suggest that having the diploma in financial managemnt which will enable you to help produce and submit tenders will probably pay better than having a payroll run.
As with any business you need to sit down and decide what it is you want to do and then decide if the rewards are worth the time and risk. there is a lot of compeition at the bottom end of bookkeeping so moving up the levels and specialising may be the way forward to command premum pricing.
Kevin
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Hi Mandy
I'm getting the vibe that you are right with your train of thought, The higher up the qualification ladder you climb the more you charge & probably changes the type of clients you deal with too. also your ponderings on accountants that too boils down to qualifications, there are limitations on what you can do based on where your at.
& i'm sure i read somewhere (probably wrong) that you have to work in an accountants to achieve accountant status.
Put me right off that did!!! haha.
i'm very lucky in that i'm hoping bookkeeeping as a job will help me to reduce my working hours & help people, i'm not in it for monetery related reasons at all & never having worked in an office enviroment & with no desire too shall be trying to sell my current business & work from home with down to earth struggling grafters like me :-)
I can see how some people constantly strive for more & I think it's amazing, But gaining AICB at 35 even if i stick with just that i'm massivly chuffed.
xxx
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I find this a really interesting discussion. Especially after Sharons post. What is it that allows one person to charge £30-£40 per hour, and someone else not to believe they are able to command such figures? Like most people, I have my boiler serviced every year. I pay £75 and the guy is there about an hour. Why should he be able to command double what some of the highest priced bookkeepers charge?
I don't think it's to do with the level or experience. I came to bookkeeping with no experience and only got level 2 when I started aiming for around £30 per hour.
I can't see that it's to do with where you are. My driving instructors pay £40 per hour (equivalent as they are fixed fee) and they come from Kent, London, Aberdeen, Dumfries, Ayrshire, Yorkshire and Cumbria.
So what is it?
For all intents and purposes Sharon has infinitely more experience than me. I would suggest that from a technical aspect of bookkeeping her knowledge is far superior to mine. So why can I charge my clients substantially more?
Can it really just be down to mind monkeys? Is it just a perception that if I charge that no one will use me?
This is such an interesting topic.
Kris
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Hi Kris
I really believe it is entirely down to 'miond monkeys' as you say. Generally people underestimate their value and skills, its part of the British upbringing I suppose.
My journey to memebership of the ICB has now come to an end after a couple of major exams failures attempting BA6 over the weekend. No idea why I should of failed because you get no feedback on exams. So now I'm registering direct with the HMRC for money laundering purposes and I might look again at the ICB in a couple of years or so.
So why do I charge £30 - £40 an hour without ICB membership while someone who has full membership think they can barely get minimum wage rates? It's all down to confidence, self-esteem and understanding the value of the skills that you have.
And, of course, it's down to contacts and networking. If you build up a netowrk of customers based on low prices then that is the sort of customer you will attract and you will find it very hard to get out of that circle.
Kevin
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Morning Kevin
Thats a real shame, you are so close and you were making blinding progress. I would hang on in there !! You only have BA6 & 7 left, to get your AICB. I wouldn't throw all your good work away !
What are you going to do with your HMRC registration ?
Regards
Trevor
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Hi Trevor,
I'll be offering finacial services such as accounting, budgeting and record keeping for charities. So I do need money laundering registration.
In a way it is a bit of a relief as the pressure if off having to pass my level 4 in under 6 weeks. I've been able to confirm that as long as my HMRC registration is through I can do some freelance finance officer work for a local charity once their employed finance officer goes on maternity leave.
Bacause its an incorporated charity if I was still aiming for ICB memebership I would have had to get to level 4 to be able to do it without breaking the ICB regulations.
I will have another at ICB membership in a couple of years or so but I have a limited budget and I need to get on with setting up the business and earning money.
Kevin
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Hi Kevin,
So sorry to hear that. You were doing so well I thought you were going to do it in time! I agree with Trevor that it would be a waste for you throw away all that good work when you were so close. Okay you have your registration with HMRC but I would definitely try and keep going with the exams. You never know when you might need it!
Kind regards,
Karen
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Hi Kevin
Thats a real shame you were doing so well Good luck with your business sounds like you have some good opportunities I do some work for a charity and it is becoming a minefield of legislation sadly they are not in a position to pay much more than minimum wage but I enjoy the challenge and any experience is good 
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