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Hi, I have a practice licence but from the end of this year I will only be working for my husbands business. I will remain self employed so should I still have a practice licence?
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My understanding is that the only people who don't need supervision for MLR are those who are employees of one business and only carry out bookkeeping for that one business. By not being an employee you don't seem to fall into this category.
Kris
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- Member PM.Dip
- Practice Licence
- 194 posts
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Hi Beverley,
I agree with Kris, if you are remaining self-employed and doing bookkeeping and if you are still a member of the ICB then you must continue to hold a Practice Licence, otherwise you will not be covered under the MLRegs. Alternatively you could resign your membership and be registered with HMRC, or your husband could put you on the payroll, then you wouldn't have to be registered for MLRegs.
Pauline
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- Fellow PM.Dip
- Practice Licence
- 115 posts
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Stardoesaid:
“Hi Beverley,
I agree with Kris, if you are remaining self-employed and doing bookkeeping and if you are still a member of the ICB then you must continue to hold a Practice Licence, otherwise you will not be covered under the MLRegs. Alternatively you could resign your membership and be registered with HMRC, or your husband could put you on the payroll, then you wouldn't have to be registered for MLRegs.
Pauline”
Not sure if that is correct, if you went on the payroll then part of the business would be bookkeeping, so someone should be registered with HMRC either directly or through a supervisory authority.
Mike
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- Member PM.Dip
- Practice Licence
- 194 posts
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Hi Mike,
If she went on the payroll (i.e. she became employed by the business) then she wouldn't have to be registered for Money Laundering surely? Otherwise this would mean that every employee that did bookkeeping for their business would have to be registered and I don't think this is the case is it? Or have I misunderstood what you are saying or what Beverley was asking?
Pauline
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- Fellow PM.Dip
- Practice Licence
- 115 posts
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Hi Pauline
As I understand it to work as a bookkeeper you need to be regulated - so if you went on the payroll of a company you still need to be regulated, which can be acheived in a variety of ways.
What probably happens quite a lot is a small company or sole trader takes a bookkeeper on the payroll and no one considers regulation. For instance the company could be a small building firm ie their primary business is building, but now they employ a bookkeeper so part of their business is bookkeeping.
Cheers
Mike
Edited at 11 Sep 2011 11:04 PM GMT
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Not correct, sorry to disagree.
Regulation is primarily for an accountancy service provider. Someone completing their own books or asking a family member to do it is not required to be regulated because they are not an accountancy service provider.
I had a new client recently who sold cars. I discussed MLR with him, he told me that he would often get someone knocking on his door, waving a few crisp banknotes and wanting to buy a car. I asked if he did ID checks, his answer was that if he could then he did but he wasn't going to turn down the sale if the person didn't have any.
I checked with the ICB MLR officer and was told that the car dealer was not under the auspices of the MLR because he wasn't a regulated person and didn't need to be.
It is somewhat bizarre - the money could be stolen, having bought a stolen car to do the robbery and now buying another car to do another robbery. But no ID/MLR checks are required.
His wife does the books and I do the accounts - I am regulated she is not.
Re the original question - is Beverly retaining her status as self employed and if so retaining the status of a regulated person? If so then I think that the practice licence is still required until the time she ceases classing herself as an accountancy service provider.
If she is, as an example, becoming a nurse but "doing the books" for her husband's business then no practice licence or regulation required.
The danger is if she relinquishes her practice licence and then accepts an "odd" job for someone she will not have the relevant paperwork in place to carry out that work legitimately.
Geoff
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- Fellow PM.Dip
- Practice Licence
- 115 posts
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Geoffsaid:
“
Regulation is primarily for an accountancy service provider. Someone completing their own books or asking a family member to do it is not required to be regulated because they are not an accountancy service provider.
”
Hi Geoff
I think I've seen that somewhere and I can understand how it would impinge on every sole trader if they had to be registered no matter what their business is, but surely there is a point where a line is crossed? For instance putting someone on the payroll as a bookkeeper.
Mike
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Nope!
What happens if you have a person doing the bookkeeping and just call them an accounts clerk?
The line is "accountancy service provider", as defined by HMRC, see
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/mlr/getstarted/register/asp.htm#2
There is further definition on that page of "Carrying out an activity 'by way of business'" so - working as a bookkeeper in a business (which is not in itself an accountancy service provider) is not by way of business.
There has been argument on the forum as to whether or not an employee of an ASB as in ICB members with Practice Licence need to be regulated and I don't think we have had a definitive answer yet.
In the legal profession the firms are regulated (they never used to be) so now an employee can find themselves hauled before the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal.
Geoff
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- Fellow PM.Dip
- Practice Licence
- 115 posts
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Hmmmm. Interesting, I have two customers one employs me for half the week and calls me the finance assistant, the other calls me the bookkeeper and at the moment employs me for all my remaining waking hours, both would put me on the payroll if I asked. So all I need do is get the second company to change my title and I can drop my practise licence and membership?
I am not seriously considering doing that since I think I have better protection and oportunity for more work remaining with the ICB, but it does seem like loop hole.
Mike
Edited at 11 Sep 2011 11:59 PM GMT
Edited at 12 Sep 2011 12:01 AM GMT
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Hi All,
I really appreciate all the replies to my question! So, as I understand it, if I am only working for my husband then I am tecnically not self employed so must be employed by my husbands business. If I am keeping other clients then I would still be self employed and would therefore need a licence. Now to add to the question.... my husband runs 2 businesses and I will be doing the books for both. How does this affect things? Help!!! ( I should add that his businesses do not supply any accounts sevices)
Regards Beverley
Edited at 12 Sep 2011 09:36 AM GMT
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James @ ICBsaid:
“Hello All,
Just to confirm, Beverly if you are still self employed you would need a licence.
If your husband employs you then you would not need a licence. Assuming your husbands business will not be offering any accountancy services that is.
Be aware that you cannot be self employed with only 1 client, so you might have to be employed by your husbands business anyway. ”
Oops. Too much reliance on IR35 methinks!
Why can't you be self employed with only one client? This implies that if you register as self employed you then have to deregister until you get two clients.
What happens if you have two clients and lose one - just on the deadline day for self assessment? "Sorry mate, can't put your tax return in , I had two clients but now I only have you and ICB tell me I can't be self employed so I have just cancelled my PI insurance and am off down the job centre to see if I can get a job until I get another client. Do stick around for a while and I can then do your tax return when I get another client. By the way it will cost you a £100 penalty for not getting your tax return in time. Sorry!"
Geoff 
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Thank you all for advice. What I have decided to do is keep my practice licence as I am now continuing with a client I do work for on an add hock basis. Hopefully this will satisfy HMRC as to my self employed status and enable me to take other small jobs if asked.
Kind regards
Beverley
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