|
- Member PM.Dip
- Practice Licence
- 84 posts
|
Hi,
I have my own extremely new practice (license and PI insurance) and have just passed my level II computerised (have already passed level I and II in manual), so am ready to get clients.
I called another bookkeeper today for advice and they were ever so helpful with what to charge, engagement letters, where they get work from etc...
However, they did say that it would be best to get experience first before charging or advertising.
What do you all think??
Isn't studying alone enough to start off your business with??
Many thanks
Angela
|
|
- Fellow PM.Dip
- Practice Licence
- 258 posts
|
Hi Angela,
This has been hotly debated many times on here!
From personal experience, in my opinion it is much better to gain a bit of experience first as there are many challenges in the workplace that are not covered in your studies, an example would perhaps be director's loans or CIS as I don't remember studying about these anywhere in the ICB texbooks or at university (though I stand to be corrected on this).
If you do want to start gaining clients straight away, then you should honest to your clients about your experience so that they know what to expect.
|
|
|
I started my business with no bookkeeping experience other than some bits and pieces I did as part of other jobs, but nothing in depth.
I've got to say I never found it hindered me, though neither did I really shout it from the rooftops. Had someone asked, I would have been straight with them, but no one did.
I'm a year on and I thought it had been a bit of a baptism of fire until I read the stories others posted here and on another bookkeeping forum.
I think you can start with no experience if you are prepared to work hard, no client I've ever had has been text book, I don't think they exist.
Kris
|
|
- Member PM.Dip
- Practice Licence
- 84 posts
|
Thank you for your comments.
It didn't even occur to me to gain experience before charging so I'm putting it down to peoples opinions and will continue with my plan of action.
I am confident enough to know what i'm doing.
I appreciate that the work place may be completely different but essentially the basics are all the same.
Now I just need to find some clients!!
|
|
|
Dear Angela
I have strong views on this subject. The ICB is one of the very few accounting bodies to my knowledge that issues a practice licence on completion of exams with out the need to demonstrate practical knowledge.
Studying and passing exams demostrates knowledge experience will teach you how to apply that knowledge.
This is not too much of a problem if you stick to the area's that you can cope with the problem comes when people try to run before they can walk somthing we see time and time again on this forum.
Things can appear simple at first glance however those with more experience will have come across the potential complications that can arise and will know what to look for and what questions to ask.
My personal view is that new practice licence holders should be supervised at the very least if not asked to get some practical experience first. I am currently trying to float the idea of Fellows and then rolling out to MICB's to carry out peer reviews on others members who hold practice licences to ensure they meet minimum requirements when working with clients.
Exams are not allowed to try and trip you up or mislead you, Clients however can be very very trying.
Kind regards
Stuart
|
|
- Member PM.Dip
- Practice Licence
- 97 posts
|
Stuart Wildmansaid:
“Dear Angela
I have strong views on this subject. The ICB is one of the very few accounting bodies to my knowledge that issues a practice licence on completion of exams with out the need to demonstrate practical knowledge.
Studying and passing exams demostrates knowledge experience will teach you how to apply that knowledge.
This is not too much of a problem if you stick to the area's that you can cope with the problem comes when people try to run before they can walk somthing we see time and time again on this forum.
Things can appear simple at first glance however those with more experience will have come across the potential complications that can arise and will know what to look for and what questions to ask.
My personal view is that new practice licence holders should be supervised at the very least if not asked to get some practical experience first. I am currently trying to float the idea of Fellows and then rolling out to MICB's to carry out peer reviews on others members who hold practice licences to ensure they meet minimum requirements when working with clients.
Exams are not allowed to try and trip you up or mislead you, Clients however can be very very trying.
Kind regards
Stuart
”
One of the site agents I used to work with had a wife who had been working in industry for years like myself but had no 'paper qualifications' as I had been in the same situation with only a night school higher grade in Accounts he asked me what I had done. I told him about the ICB which I had just completed and how I was now working towards my MAAT.
His wife then spoke to the company external accountant and came back to me to tell me that he said the ICB qualification was not worth the paper it was written on.
I was rather shocked at that and I must admit it did dishearten me about trying to pick up freelance work or even use the qualifications with my signature on any of the company's paperwork.
What is your opinion Stuart?
|
|
|
I have been in the profession since 1967.
Up until 2008 I had survived without a single qualification. The ASB regulations made me decide to get a recognised qualification and I chose the ICB - to be honest I thought I would get a rubber stamp acceptance but was totally wrong on that one.
I passed the entrance paper as a member with 95%, computerised with 100% distinction, self assessment and payroll with plus 90%.
I have written the ICB Certified Legal Bookkeeper course and since September have been teaching A level accounting, AAT level II and OCR bookkeeping.
This morning I have been teaching International Accounting Standards to A level students.
I have been appointed to the ICB Advisory Council and also the Education Review Group.
Would I have got this far without the ICB? My membership has certainly been worth the paper it is written - it looks pretty impressive on what was a very poor CV previously. I am very proud of the journey I have been on so far.
Yes, I could possibly have done the same with another organisation but at my time of life with other commitments I doubt that I would have achieved more.
Think of it as a driving licence - you pass your test but if you only want to take the car on and off the driveway then that is as far as you will go.
If you want to travel further then there is no reason why you cannot do so with the ICB.
And if the ICB has no worth in its qualification why is the CEO (and others within) regularly attending meetings between other like minded organisations?
Geoff Smith
|
|
- Member PM.Dip
- Practice Licence
- 97 posts
|
Geoff,
As I said I was really shocked at what that accountant had told her,it would have been around 2008. The papers I had to sit for my membership were not exactly simple and I also had to provide references demonstrating my competence.
What I wondered was if anyone else had come across this attitude from other Chartered Accountants?
Pamela
|
|
|
Pamela
I didn't know until the announcement was made a short while ago BUT the BKN Professional Institute of The Year Award, I think, underlines just about everything.
Geoff
|
|
- Fellow
- Practice Licence
- 27 posts
|
PAMDILLsaid:
“Geoff,
As I said I was really shocked at what that accountant had told her,it would have been around 2008. The papers I had to sit for my membership were not exactly simple and I also had to provide references demonstrating my competence.
What I wondered was if anyone else had come across this attitude from other Chartered Accountants?
Pamela ”
I think it shows a level of ignorance. Many, many years ago when I had just qualified I was working for a firm of accountants on self employed basis whilst growing my own business. I became frustrated by the number of bookkeeping positions that asked for AAT qualified. The accountant that I was working for kindly had a look at the ICB syllabus and confirmed that it covered almost the same topics as AAT.
The ICB provides good qualifications which we should be proud to achieve. However, having a good qualification will not make a good bookkeeper. Yes it points you in the right direction and gives you the tools to do the job but it is how you use the tools that count. (no pun intended!).
A little off the point but well done and thank you ICB for 15 great years.
regards
Lynne
|
|
|
I agree with Stuart, I also feel that experience is required in addition to taking exams.
My experience of employing and subcontracting other bookkeepers has shown me that the ability to deal with real life situations - and not necessarily tricky ones from the bookkeeping point of view, but in terms of applying knowledge and dealing with the idiosyncrasies of clients' systems and requirements - is something that needs to be experienced, it isn't learnt from any of the training courses.
There is also the issue that you don't know what you don't know!
|
|
|
Hi
Yes there is nothing like experience, but what i would say is that life experience is important as well.
I came into accounting 20 odd years ago - i did bookkeeping for about a year in a large practice, and i learnt more from actually going through farmers books than i did on my AAT course ( i dont think the course went into bookkeeping in any great detail - didnt even know the accounting equation until i started training again)- in fact i can honestly say that going through bookkeeping second time around through life experience in other areas i have learnt more and been able to apply more.
Experience comes with practice but being thrown in the deep end is not necessarily a bad thing and i would also say that there is something that has not been mentioned - the support mechanism of the ICB to its members.
Life is for living - my advice would be go for it
What i would also say is a repeat of my previous post.
What about setting up a virtual business that new bookkeepers can practice on - manual cashbooks, invoices (minus the greasy marks) etc - i am sure that this would be a useful tool.
What do the ICB think of this idea?
Regards
Acorn
|
|
- Member PM.Dip
- Practice Licence
- 84 posts
|
Acorn2oaksaid:
“Hi
Yes there is nothing like experience, but what i would say is that life experience is important as well.
I came into accounting 20 odd years ago - i did bookkeeping for about a year in a large practice, and i learnt more from actually going through farmers books than i did on my AAT course ( i dont think the course went into bookkeeping in any great detail - didnt even know the accounting equation until i started training again)- in fact i can honestly say that going through bookkeeping second time around through life experience in other areas i have learnt more and been able to apply more.
Experience comes with practice but being thrown in the deep end is not necessarily a bad thing and i would also say that there is something that has not been mentioned - the support mechanism of the ICB to its members.
Life is for living - my advice would be go for it
What i would also say is a repeat of my previous post.
What about setting up a virtual business that new bookkeepers can practice on - manual cashbooks, invoices (minus the greasy marks) etc - i am sure that this would be a useful tool.
What do the ICB think of this idea?
Regards
Acorn
”
Thank you Acorn and everyone else for their pearls of wisdom. Fortunately, I thought about who I knew that was either a bookkeeper or accountant and have remembered someone I used to work with years ago and she's going to check my work for a little while and be on call if I need her help. I've also been in contact with another accountant and I am attending a networking group next Tuesday morning to meet lots of local businessmen/women.
|
|
|
Hi All
I know one of the idea being floated at one time was to look at having some sort of mentoring system for those who are newly qualified and may need some confidence boosting .
As one of the regional chairs I have devoted a segment to practice development in the hopes of helping some of the members who are newer to bookkeeping to develop thew well rounded skill's they will need I am looking to cover a wide vareity of topics from website deisgn to role play exercises.
As Acorn states the ICB does have support mechanisms and as long as you deal in the things you are confident with to start with you should be fine and do well.
Kind regards
Stuart
|
|
- Fellow PM.Dip
- Practice Licence
- 115 posts
|
I'm fully behind what Stewart is doing, it isn't just renaming the London regional 'meeting' to 'workshop'. It is early days yet but I can see there will be advantages for members who engage with their regional group, no matter how qualified or experienced you are there is always room to learn something new.
It's all very well to ask the ICB to provide a support network, although I'm sure the advice and support they give out each day is invaluable, it can never be as powerfull as local bookkeepers from students to fellows building their own group. I don't suppose it will ever end the 'exeperience over qualifications' argument, but bringing members together who have an abundance of each has to be a good a thing.
Good luck Angela, I was in your position a year ago - time flies pretty fast and it is much easier to move from being inexperienced to having some experience than it is to move from unqualified to qualifed.
Mike
|
