Forum

• # 77277
• Tue 29 Nov 2011 01:59 PM

Hi All

I am fairly new to practicing as a bookkeeper and am fully aware that I have much to learn.  Recently I queried some figures in the accountant produced draft final accounts for one of the businesses I do work for.  The reply I got included:

"the final accounts normally differ from the primary records because of the adjustments we make to account for items that do not appear in the primary records.  As accountants that is part of our job."

Apart from the patronising tone (which I have removed) of the complete e-mail I received I am concerned that I have missed something in my studies and the practical work I have done so far.  So the question is:

What items would not appear in the primary records I took over 4 months ago and what adjusments would accountants do to account for them?

Many thanks in advance for any and all advice

Thanks

Pete

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• # 77283
• Tue 29 Nov 2011 04:23 PM

Hi 

Sometimes accountants  do need to Journals for various reasons for example Bad, Debt Provision, Accruals and Prepayments .Depreciation , CT Tax . Closing stock .  Work in progress, stock write offs  .  Assets revalued, Profit or loss on disposal of asset

You asked a valid question

 if you feel  there is a balance incorrect you have can write to them to ask them as you deed and unfortunatley you recieved this reponse which is not sufficent unless they have explained them to your clinet already .  Ask them  for thier Journals so you are and why they have done them.  

My Advice would also be to show your client their response .  If they can not explain why or your client does not give you a valid reason .   I am no expert but this would involve MLR regulations if either party cannot answer the reason for their Journals.  Perhaps you could contact ICB if you needed to. 

As for their tone I do not enought to comment but I hope the above helps  

• Sarah Douglas C.FICB

  HouseTree Business Ltd 

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• # 77285
• Tue 29 Nov 2011 04:44 PM

Hi – if the accountants are amending the end of year totals in any respect other than adding in the corporation tax, they do in any event need to provide you with their journals as otherwise you will not be able to close off the books for the year.

So far, I have found the accountants I have dealt with to be helpful and pleasant – if I query any change, they have not hesitated to explain (although normally the reason has been obvious). They do their job, I do mine, and me doing the bookkeeping takes a lot of the work off their hands, which they appreciate as they get much tidier financials at the end of the year (not to mention them being further along the road to completion, as I will have been doing depreciation, accruals etc. as I go).

So as Sara says, ignore their tone if you have been unlucky enough to have encountered someone who is inclined to be patronising. They are reaping the benefit of your services as much as anyone else and should understand perfectly well why you need to know what they are doing so that you can do your job.

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• # 77287
• Tue 29 Nov 2011 05:07 PM

Thanks to you both so far.

I am seeing my client tomorrow and will be showing him both my original message and the reply, especially the bit that says if he wants any further information it will cost him. 

As the business is not a limited company CT is not involved, however the client's income tax return depends on parts of the final accounts.

(I am sorry if I gave the impression that the tone of the e-mail was the issue here, prehaps I should have left that out, however I certainly got the impression that this particular accountant was not prepared to talk to a mere bookkeeper - thats her problem not mine )

Pete

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• # 77290
• Tue 29 Nov 2011 06:03 PM

Hi Pete,

Did the Accountant provide you with a list of adjustments? If not, then it doesn't make any sense to me. Fair enough it's logical to make adjustments from primary records but you can't balance your TB to the final accounts with entering them into your records.
 

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• # 77296
• Tue 29 Nov 2011 07:45 PM

Yes I have been provided with a list of adjustments but they do not explain why for instance:

For a Fixed Asset:

According to the Sage accounts:     Cost £10000, Depreciation £0, Accumulated Depreciation £0 NBV £10000
According to the Accountant:           Cost £20000, Depreciation £1000, Accumulated Depreciation £5000, NBV £14000

I must be missing something?

I should point out I took over after the year end routines had been run in Sage.

(Figures are examples only but ratios are about the same)

Pete

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• # 77297
• Tue 29 Nov 2011 08:04 PM

A couple of ideas - Did you check over the depreciation policy as per the accounts of the previous year? It seems unlikely that they would have a policy of not depreciating at all? Also, were there no fixed assets which were purchased during the course of the year? Or could there have been something that you expensed which they think should have been treated as a fixed asset (e.g. equipment)?

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• # 77322
• Wed 30 Nov 2011 12:02 AM

Hi 

The accountants should be able to provide you with the working Schedule what make up those figures.

 There is no reason why it should cost them extra as they must have a reason to produce those figures for the client and therefore would have the paperwork .  The client is allowed ask for this and to see the detail as he paid for the figures to be produced .

It is the clients responsiblity what is sent to the HMRC for self asessment so he or she needs to know.

Don,t worry about mentioning the Tone.   I did not pick that up as been the main part of question.  I only mention it as I did not know enough about his letter.
 

• Sarah Douglas C.FICB

  HouseTree Business Ltd 

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