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• # 79794
• Mon 20 Feb 2012 09:10 AM

hi everyone,

l need your help please. l want to buy the sage payroll management study material but lm not sure which one is best between

1.Sage Instant Payroll Self Study Workbooks for £45. and
2.Sage lnstant Payroll for £126.00.

lm just too confused because of the difference in prices. Also l recently registered for this module with my training provider and they have sent me study material for the year( 2009-10). l just didnt want to be a pain, but we are in 2012 now l was just wondering if l shouldnt be using material fo this year.

Your help will be greatly appreciated.

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• # 79838
• Mon 20 Feb 2012 10:32 PM

Hi Ciemandy

The difference in price is probably because 1. is a 180day free trial and 2. is a full version.(up to nine employees, I think).  I opted for 1. ( and paid £36 from Books Express) as if I go on to do payroll for clients I'll probably need a multi client version.  As regards the year you are studying, the basics will be the same, just the amounts of SSP, SMP, tax allowances etc may change each year.  It's also a good idea to download info from HMRC website to supplement your study.  Search the forum for more info on this subject, it's good to see other points of view.

All the best,

 

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• # 79839
• Mon 20 Feb 2012 11:54 PM

Dear all

I apologise for the long post on this forum, but can someone assist me on the Payroll Mock Exams.

You will see two distinct sets of questions, and that relates to MOCK exams 2010/2011 and 2011/2012.

Some of the questions I raised were answered but I feel they were not fully comprehended, as the solutions I was given do not solve the problems I am encountering.  As mentioned on the quotes below, it would be very useful if I could get a definitive answer from someone that has used this software and have done the mock exams mentioned below.

Hope someone can assist me on the Payroll Mock Exam 2010/2011.

I have read somewhere in the forum that some of you had some issues with the Tables method requested on the above mock exam, but that the software MoneySoft uses the exact method.

I checked the software and I cannot see anywhere to make certain employees NIC to be calculated using the tables method. Can someone confirm whether:

1st - you had used this software on your exam
2nd - If you have used this software, were you negatively penalised by this, if you use the exact method? Or do you know any way to customise the software, so it calculates the NIC using the table method on specific employees?
3rd - I realised that on the above mock exam, the director "Chris Meadows" NIC was not calculated in the usual way for directors (cumulative NIC).  Instead the answers suggest that the NIC was calculated on a week/monthly basis, when the other director Deena Beverley was calculated on a cumulative basis. Can someone explain to me why this is the case?

Furthermore, if someone joins the company in the period we are working on (new employee) should the holiday entitlement be calculated pro-rata?  There was a new employee:

 “In Week 5, John Thyme joins the company. He is to be put on a week one basis. His date of birth is 02/02/87, his NI number is YT124578A and he is to be paid £250 per week in weeks 5 and 6 and £300 per week in weeks 7 and 8.”

But I cannot see on the employee’s details this employee so I do not know whether the holiday was calculated pro-rata or not.  Is there any formula for calculating the holiday entitlement?  If so, can someone tell me please, so in case I need to calculate holiday entitlement, then this will be formula used by the examiner.

 ---my second post---

There are small differences in the NIC for all the employees (I think that is to do with the exact method used by the software).  How can that be sorted?  Will I be penalised?  Contacted ICB with this and some other questions and unfortunately their response was not very helpful (in my opinion) - who told me to raise those questions to my learning provider.

Can someone help? 

 ---someone's response ---

“Hello

Yes, click on the Alternative method in employee/work and you will use the table method.

I have been using Moneysoft this weekend to do both mock exams.  I found it very useful to do this then compare my final reports with those from the official mock answers.  It really helped to iron out some grey areas!

Cheers

Jo”

---my reply---

Hi Jo

I am getting somehow confused.  If I click use alternative method in the work tab of the employees' details, the NIC figures still do not agree with the ones provided on the mock exam.  The differences occur more on the weekly paid employees.

On the mock exam Wendy Bachelor needs to be paid 2 weeks pre-paid holiday in week 3.  On the mock answers it shows the holiday pay in week 3, but I cannot find any way to include this as part of the week 3 in the report, and get the NIC and PAYE to be calculated properly.  On Moneysoft there is a way to prepay the holiday, but the amounts only show on the payslip, but the weekly reports just show as if I did not select the pre-paid holiday.  Can anyone help?

Does anyone know how to change the NIC automatic calculation of Emma Bradley on month 12, because she underpaid NIC?  The figures I have got for months 1 and 2 agree (+/-) with the ones provided by the mock answers, but when I prepare the P35, the NIC figure for Emma gets inflated by the automatic calculation of NIC Ee - £1769.48 and NIC Er Minus £813.36 in month 12 = i.e. £956.12.

Finally does anyone know how to get the working pattern, Annual and Weekly pay and other details in the Employee Details printout, other than including this info in the Additional Info/Notes?  There is a box in the Employee Details report named "Pay Rate", but I cannot find the box on the software to fill those details in, so they can be added and printed on this report.

It is with regret that I say I won't be emailing ICB directly because based on previous responses, they won't be helping me on the above questions.  Most likely they would tell me to ask my teaching provider...  I am not actually attending any classes, and unfortunately MoneySoft Guide is not that detailed to help me solving some of the problems above, and to be fair they cannot advise me on how ICB assesses/checks the answers of the candidates, so my only hope is that you share your experience and thoughts on the above and give me a helping hand on this.

The ICB Body input would be very much appreciated on this occasion too, so you can give me some proper guidance, (as after all you are the ones assessing/checking the exams).

PS: I REALLY WANT TO BOOK MY EXAM, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO GET SOME PROPER FEEDBACK AND GUIDANCE BEFORE I DO THIS.

Many thanks in advance
Garmen

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  Carla
  AICB CB.Cert PM.Dip
  
  
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• # 79880
• Tue 21 Feb 2012 07:03 PM

Garmen, I am still waiting for my results, and used 12 pay, not moneysoft, but will try to help with your questions.

First, almost all software uses the "exact percentage" method, Sage does not. Both methods are acceptable. So when using software other than Sage, for all employees, regardless of whether or not they are directors, you will see small differences in the NI figures.

For directors, there are 2 possible ways of calculating director's NI. This is regardles of software used. You can either chose the normal director's method which looks at cumulative YTD earnings, this causes fluctuations in the monthly amount of NI charged. Or you can choose to keep the payments the same each month, then when you get to the final period for the year, you look at the cumulative earnings and adjust the final period accordingly. 

So all software will ask you which method you wish to use. Sage uses the term "tables method" for the alternative method which means even monthly payments and a year end adjustment. So depending on how your software words this question, there is will be a selection box. In 12pay, the question is "ignore director?" If you check the ignore director box, then this gives you the alternative, or tables method. I'm sure you could check this with moneysoft, or look on their help section/forum? 

For holiday pay, my software did not calculate this automatically, and it is probably simpler not to try. I input the holiday entitlement in the employee details/HR section, and took screen prints as it didn't come out on my employee details reports as it does with Sage.

For advance holiday pay, I calculated the amount manually, then set up an advance holiday pay "pay type" for the month and input the amount there.

From memory, this did cause some differences to Sage temporarily due to the different methods, but these were only timing differences.

I hope this helps.  

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• # 79888
• Tue 21 Feb 2012 11:16 PM

Jude67said:

“Garmen, I am still waiting for my results, and used 12 pay, not moneysoft, but will try to help with your questions.

First, almost all software uses the "exact percentage" method, Sage does not. Both methods are acceptable. So when using software other than Sage, for all employees, regardless of whether or not they are directors, you will see small differences in the NI figures.

For directors, there are 2 possible ways of calculating director's NI. This is regardles of software used. You can either chose the normal director's method which looks at cumulative YTD earnings, this causes fluctuations in the monthly amount of NI charged. Or you can choose to keep the payments the same each month, then when you get to the final period for the year, you look at the cumulative earnings and adjust the final period accordingly. 

So all software will ask you which method you wish to use. Sage uses the term "tables method" for the alternative method which means even monthly payments and a year end adjustment. So depending on how your software words this question, there is will be a selection box. In 12pay, the question is "ignore director?" If you check the ignore director box, then this gives you the alternative, or tables method. I'm sure you could check this with moneysoft, or look on their help section/forum? 

For holiday pay, my software did not calculate this automatically, and it is probably simpler not to try. I input the holiday entitlement in the employee details/HR section, and took screen prints as it didn't come out on my employee details reports as it does with Sage.

For advance holiday pay, I calculated the amount manually, then set up an advance holiday pay "pay type" for the month and input the amount there.

From memory, this did cause some differences to Sage temporarily due to the different methods, but these were only timing differences.

I hope this helps.  ”

• ____________________
  
  Carla
  AICB CB.Cert PM.Dip
  
  
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• # 79930
• Wed 22 Feb 2012 10:16 PM

Hi Garmen, I understand what you are saying about this, I did have the same concerns. After looking at the forum for the software I used I realised that this is commonly known and that it is Sage that differ to other software / HMRC's own software.

But you are right in that there is no way to know how this is viewed by the examiner. The exam paper asked me to provide details of the software I used, so I took the view that examiners must be well aware of this. I felt I could understand all the differences and knew what I was doing so I went ahead with the exam. I didn't pay for any course.

I have just received my results today and happily have passed it, but my mark was not as high as I had hoped for. There is no way of telling where I lost marks unfortunately.

It might be worth getting a trial version of Sage payroll just to give you a bit more confidence? You might find one on Amazon quite cheaply.

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• # 79933
• Thu 23 Feb 2012 12:19 AM

Jude67said:

“Hi Garmen, I understand what you are saying about this, I did have the same concerns. After looking at the forum for the software I used I realised that this is commonly known and that it is Sage that differ to other software / HMRC's own software.

But you are right in that there is no way to know how this is viewed by the examiner. The exam paper asked me to provide details of the software I used, so I took the view that examiners must be well aware of this. I felt I could understand all the differences and knew what I was doing so I went ahead with the exam. I didn't pay for any course.

I have just received my results today and happily have passed it, but my mark was not as high as I had hoped for. There is no way of telling where I lost marks unfortunately.

It might be worth getting a trial version of Sage payroll just to give you a bit more confidence? You might find one on Amazon quite cheaply.”

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  Carla
  AICB CB.Cert PM.Dip
  
  
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• # 81408
• Sat 31 Mar 2012 06:35 PM

Did anyone find an answer to putting the extra details on the employee details report.  I am doing the mock and the report my Sage 50 produces is just employee details (personal) with none of the holiday entitlement/working pattern/holiday entitlement details.

Thanks

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• # 81587
• Thu 05 Apr 2012 08:08 AM

My main worry is to do with the small NIC differences and the year end figures provided on the P35 include an adjustment in month 12 for Emma (2011/2012 Mock exam) to account for the underpaid NIC that causes differences between my totals and the ones provided on the mock exam...

Thanks
Garmen”

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• # 81636
• Fri 06 Apr 2012 05:44 PM

busybeesaid:

“

My main worry is to do with the small NIC differences and the year end figures provided on the P35 include an adjustment in month 12 for Emma (2011/2012 Mock exam) to account for the underpaid NIC that causes differences between my totals and the ones provided on the mock exam...

Thanks
Garmen”

---

Hi Garmen if you're about! Or anyone else! I have your same problem - Moneysoft does a month 12 adjustment for p35 - this makes sense! But like you say this means the P35 produced by Moneysoft does not agree with the P35 in the mock answers! Which is right? Hope you did well anyway in spite of the lack of clarity.”

Dear Busybee

The only advice I can give to you is to make as many comments as you can when you are actually doing the exam so the examiner can see your expertise in the area.  I attempted to contact ICB directly for this and various other problems I encountered but to be honest their answer was not that helpful in the sense of giving me guidance on what to do, which annoys me somehow..

So if you want to be given some useful advice in regards to this, put a note for the examiner to let him/her know that as far as the adjustment at the end of the year is concerned, using that method of calculation the software is "clever" enough to know that Emma underpaid throughout the year and therefore she needs to pay that money to HMRC.  By making a note to the examiner you will make him/her aware that you know why there was an adjustment, and made you critically analyse it.

I could not find anywhere of the software guidance ways to remove this from the system.

Unfortunately I cannot advise you anything else.  Just a general comment to all the exams you do, the more and relevant info you give to the examiner, the more expertise you show to him/her, and hopefully that way you are better of.

On my actual exam I did not have 100%, so in the event of that problem appearing or not (which I cannot confirm or not), I cannot be certain of everything I state, but common sense tells me that it is certainly better to make a note for the examiner, rather than not.

Hope this helps.
Garmen

• ____________________
  
  Carla
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• # 81637
• Fri 06 Apr 2012 05:50 PM

Thanks Garmen -will do.

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