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- Member PM.Dip
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Can anyone help, I recently passed my part 2 manual book keeping exam, but when looking through my errors I noticed that I lost a good few marks by using "N/A" for boxes that were not relevant to my calculations. Can anyone tell me why? I realise that I could have used "Nil" but was unaware that it made a difference, this amounted to 6 marks! I did get a distinction but would have been obviously happier with 6 extra marks.
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I lost marks on my entrance paper (only got 96%) because of the VAT return. I put "0.00" instead of "NONE". The return does say "if there are none write the word none" but I am of the old school and if there are boxes for figures then I put figures.
So getting marks deducted for not correctly completing the document is totally correct.
Having said that - there is no provision on a VAT return for putting N/A or nil .
Geoff Smith
Member ICB Advisory Council
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- Companion Fellow PM.Dip
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Hi
I think the ICB needs to look at this and bring this it to line with the law as it stands now, as Vat returns are completed online.
All vat returns are online and you have to fill the box in with figures even if it is nil otherwise it will not let you go ahead.
This is a personal opinion not the ICB's . I think that is an unfair amount of points to lose but I am not a exam marker. I feel this issue should be looked at.
Edited at 03 Nov 2011 03:19 PM GMT
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We have to be careful in our criticisms to ensure accuracy - it is not YET a requirement for all VAT returns to be done online, it does not become wholly compulsory until April 2012
Thus it is still possible to file a paper return within certain criteria.
I am sure that this is in hand for when the change becomes effective but until then everyone should accept (as I did) that marks will be lost for inaccuracy, writing N/A or (as did) 0.00 was inaccurate.
The ICB is not alone in marking down in such matters - if anyone is in any doubt I suggest that they look at the OCR basic bookkeeping course (which I am now teaching) which sets out very clearly the areas where marks are gained and lost.
Geoff Smith
Member ICB Advisory Council and ICB Education Review Group
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- Companion Fellow PM.Dip
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Hi Geoff
It is not a critisim of the ICB but I do have concerns with the papers been up to date and practical.
We have had many a member in the past just think they can do CIS returns and statements without any knowledge of the tax implications for materials and labour and the vat element, or the heavily fined structure of the CIS . This is not covered in the exams.
I stand corrected if it is now put in place, but the Vat Return is really quite simple in comparsion. I thing marking someone down 6 marks for this is harsh, maybe 3 marks for your point raised above.
I think it is more important the exam structure covers all areas , then taking 6 points off as a I say, 3 would be sufficient to make a point.
Edited at 03 Nov 2011 05:15 PM GMT
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Hi Sarah
I haven't seen the paper in question - my view would be that there must be some relevance - if an answer requires N/A then that will be fine.
On my entrance paper I lost six marks and achieved 95% (114/120) but I did not lose six marks on the NONE instead of 0.00 on the VAT return. At least one mark was lost because I entered a figure incorrectly - my mistake on not checking my figures and no-one to blame but myself.
I am sure you are correct about CIS and to an extent you are right but on a wider scale - and I don't know the answer - is there a need for it in an exam? I have never undertaken CIS work but then again I would not try to do so if asked unless I was 100% certain. Others, I agree, will, unfortunately, think differently.
If there is a need then perhaps you, or another member, may like to talk to the ICB about writing a course (as I did with Legal Bookkeeping) maybe.
Geoff Smith
Member ICB Advisory Council and ICB Education Review Group
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I would definately be interested in doing a CIS course.
Edited at 03 Nov 2011 06:44 PM GMT
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gigagirlsaid:
“I would definately be interested in doing a CIS course.
Edited at 03 Nov 2011 06:44 PM GMT”
In my opinion, CIS process does not need to be part of an exam to get members to an acceptable standard enabling them to undertake CIS return job.
A CPD run as workshop on the subject suffice to make members aware of taxation and regulation around the process.
The CIS process as such is not significant enough to justify running course/exam.
Hope we get someone expert on the subject to run a workshop, at in London!
Kind Regards,
Nathaliexxx
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nckbookssaid:
“gigagirlsaid:
“I would definately be interested in doing a CIS course.
Edited at 03 Nov 2011 06:44 PM GMT”
In my opinion, CIS process does not need to be part of an exam to get members to an acceptable standard enabling them to undertake CIS return job.
A CPD run as workshop on the subject suffice to make members aware of taxation and regulation around the process.
The CIS process as such is not significant enough to justify running course/exam.
Hope we get someone expert on the subject to run a workshop, at in London!
Kind Regards,
Nathaliexxx”
And if they do a workshop on it, could it be broadcast live on-line, so I can watch?
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Hi Giga,
Hmm hmm I would really be surprised if your request got answered.
The institute and members are trying to improve attendancy to CPD. In my opinion interesting topics like CIS RETURN process would attract members. I am not sure if the institute holds allocated resources to broadcast CPD online. Saying that it would not be helpful in terms of improving attendancy. Giga you are welcome to give your suggestion to the institute.
There was an article on CIS in February 2011 newletter. I suggest you search from ICB homepage. You will also come accross forum thread on the subject.
You could alternatively liaise with your local Regional chairman and suggest the topic for a futur CPD.
I will raise a question on London inbox and I suggest you do the same for your region.
Let's see if other members will be interested.
Good Week end and hope this help!
Nathaliexxx
Edited at 04 Nov 2011 08:26 PM GMT
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- Member PM.Dip
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nckbookssaid:
The institute and members are trying to improve attendancy to CPD.
So why aren't members attending, as anyone thought about the majority of members being women and probably with children who struggle to get childcare in the evenings??
I thinK Andrea's idea is great, otherwise working parents will always be disadvantaged!
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I do not know if the suggestion that the majority of members are women is factually correct but of course even if that is the case we have to ensure that everyone gets looked after - for example there will of course be male members who have child care issues, they may be single parents or they may have to stay at home to look after the children because their partner works in the evening.
So getting the right balance, especially with so many members across the UK, is extremely difficult at the best of times.
Not only are there the regional workshops but Garry and his crew travelled the length and breadth of the UK last year on seminar duty (and again this year). Last year the seminars were held during the day and, as I recall, the feedback was that members wanted them in the evening -some didn’t want a seminar to interfere with their business life amongst other things so the evening option was chosen.
Now we have members suggesting that evenings are a problem. It does, I think, come down to pleasing some of the people some of the time, a lot of the people a lot of the time.........etc.
What the ICB will do is to take the feedback and try to get a happy medium (no not one to appear at a workshop  )so that as much as possible can be done to support members.
Evolution takes time - the ICB has recently won the award of Professional Institute of the Year which must mean that the movement is in the right direction. Hopefully this can be built on for the future.
Geoff Smith
Member ICB Advisory Council
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I would love to attend workshops and things like that but I have a very restricted schedule.
Have 2 boys aged 6 &7, who can't be left at home alone. Although I have a husband, I can't rely on him for childcare as he is a retained firefighter, and is on call for 120 hours per week. I live near salisbury which has terrible transport links, so everything is against me.
Also, having on-line workshops would be better for the environment, and would probably be popular. Just thinking that it would mean more members would have access to information which can only increase our collective knowledge base.
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I too, am in a similar position with child at home with special needs. It would be an excellent idea for workshops to be made available on line to members...
I did part of my studies through the "Home learn Collage" and they used a system called Wiz-ig (i think!) which allowed you to join online discussions and lessons.... These were excellent for me !
I wonder if this could be adopted for those who find it hard to get wawy from home?
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