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Please could I have some advice regarding first client, self assessment & registering with hmrc for online agent services

  • 31 posts
  • # 111610

Hello,

I may have a first client (a sole trader, small business).  The client says that they have an accountant that prepares their accounts and submits their tax return but their wife does the bookkeeping.  I can provide these services but for the moment it looks like just a self assessment is needed at the end of January.  I have a few questions:

1. Do I need to write to the accountants and ask for them to provide me details of the previous year's accounts and self assesment tax return?

2. I have noticed that for me to register as an Agent I need to have an Agent code, which I need to apply for in writing to HMRC and they it says that they inform you of the success or failure of the application up to 28 days of receiving the application.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/client-authorisation-an-overview

In order to submit a tax return online I then need to register with HMRC online services which requires an activation pin which is sent in the post in 7 days.

In your experience with HMRC & receiving work from former accountants, would you say that I have enough time realistically to get this information/ register with HMRC in time for the tax return deadline?

3.  Is there anything I have overlooked here? Another process that needs to be done before I can offer self assessment tax returns (and submit them online) as a service?

 

Any advice would be greatly received!

 

Grace



Edited at 10 Nov 2015 04:08 PM GMT

Edited at 10 Nov 2015 04:09 PM GMT

  • Fellow PM.Dip
  • Practice Licence
  • 336 posts
  • # 111612

Hi Grace

I had to do all of this for the first time about 4 and a half years ago.  After my initial letter to HMRC asking to be registered as an agent I seem to recall the response coming back fairly quickly.  Then I think you have to go online a register for each tax you want to be agent for and again the activation codes come through quite fast.  So yes, you have plenty of time if you apply now - so long as your client has had their form submitted by 31st January and paid what is due by the same date then you have over 8 weeks to play with.

Good luck as you embark on this new stage in your career!

Kind regards

Debbie

  • 31 posts
  • # 111613

Hi Debbie,

Thank you so much for replying and being so helpful. Everything is a learning curve at the moment!  It is good to know that HMRC are quite quick processing applications.

 

Kind regards

Grace

  • 794 posts
  • # 111614

Hi Grace,

You will have to write to client's present accountant requesting 'clearance to act' for them.

This should include a signed letter from client advising it is ok for them to supply you with information you request regarding the accounts.

Once you receive clearance to act (providing the response is acceptable) you will need to issue a Letter of Engagement to client.

Only when all this has been done can you carry out work for client.

Previous accountant may not respond very quickly so be prepared for a delay, especially in the run up to SA Tax deadline.

Ref HMRC - I agree with Debbie.

Marilyn

  • 794 posts
  • # 111615

Deleted as forum came up with an error and then duplicated post!



Edited at 10 Nov 2015 09:56 PM GMT

  • 31 posts
  • # 111616

Hi Marilyn,

I was a little worried that it could be a bit delayed by the former accountants and yes then I need to have the client sign and return my letter of engagement. As this is my first client I don't want to promise something that I can't deliver due to time constraints.  I think I will probably agree to do the bookkeeping and the self assessment and accounts next time, hopefully I will have got a better feel for the business by then too. 

It is very helpful knowing the processes involved and how long they take, thank you for your advice.

Kind regards

Grace



Edited at 10 Nov 2015 10:07 PM GMT

  • 28 posts
  • # 111649

Hi Grace,

I applied for my tax agent code a year ago. The initial letter back did take a month to arrive (there have been many cuts in HMRC personnel in the last few years and response time generally are slower to correspondance than they have been in the past). HMRC made a mistake on my company name and the whole thing took a further 4 weeks to resolve.

Also I've had recent applications for client authorisation codes that have take 3 weeks to arrive, not the publicised 7-14 days. In order to apply for client authorisation you need the client's Unique Tax Reference and NINO, along with a postcode. It is worth checking they all of these to hand, sometimes that is not the case!

So if it goes smoothly, you have the time, but if not you will need to chase HMRC hard and not be put off by call centre excuses.

With regards what else you might need.

Is it just the self assessment that is needed? If the accountant has done the financial statements and the tax return before and the client the day to day books, will they they been expecting you to do the financial statements and adjusted trading accounts for tax purposes, including any expense calculations and capital alowances? Also have you checked what they mean by keeping the books. It may seem obvious, but a lot of smaller clients don't have any idea what is really involved in completing the tax return and just expect you to do a whole years bookkeeping as well as everything else.

It also may be that they no idea how their motoring or use of the home for business purposes deductions have been calculated or what fixed assets are owned by the business / have be written off for tax purposes, so you will need the information from the accountant to answer these questions.

Finally, how are you going to manage the tax calculation process and providing your client with the self assessment information to authorise prior to submitting their return (an HMRC requirement). If you are going to do this manually, do you have all your paperwork templates in place to do this or if you are going to use software are you familiar with how it all works?

It is all achievable in the time you have, but it is worth being clear up front as to what work needs to be undertaken, so that you can manage your time (and stress) accordingly.

It is worth noting that although some clients do give you the time in the summer to get their tax returns completed, many clients also leave things to late in the year and just expect you to fit everything in. Setting a date in you letter of engagement that makes clear the deadline you expect to receive their information for future years may help manage the process later down the line.

Good luck with the return, I am sure you will do a great job.

Kathryn

  • 75 posts
  • # 113845

Hello

Apologies for reviving an old post but this seemed more sensible that duplicating with a new one.

If a client states that they have done the bookkeeping and just require a self assessment calculating and submitting, then what is the general practice. Do you go with the figures given, do some spot checks and error checking or do the books from scratch? The reason I ask is that some of the pricing for services I've seen online are very low and I cannot see how a profit can be made (I've seen some as low as £65 for SA) and I wanted to get a feel of how others approach these types of client. Or do you treat the bookkeeping and SA as two seperate services and quote accordingly.

Many thanks in advance.

Dean

  • 17 posts
  • # 113850

Hi Dean

I'm quite new in the game.  My second client told me their estimated loss for the year, that they were organised and everything was in an Excel workbook.  I took a copy of the Excel information, asked for the source documents too and entered them into my bookkeeping software.  It turned out that some of the income and expenditure was missing from the Excel spreadsheet, and their 'loss' was mostly caused by including the full cost of a car they had purchased!

The way I've quoted my work is as one price but itemised into a smallish charge for submitting the SATR and the rest for doing the bookkeeping.  My two clients (so far) have very simple sole trader businesses and personal tax affairs.  The reason I priced this way is that if the bookkeeping or the personal tax situations become more complicated I can increase the prices accordingly without muddying the waters; ie keep the business costs within the businesses and the personal costs outside of them.

I agree that £65 for SA seems cheap.  However, if the bookkeeping had been done by a professional bookkeeper who simply wasn't set up to submit tax returns, I would more than likely use their figures and charge only for preparing/submitting the return.

Hth.

Christina

  • 75 posts
  • # 113851

Hello Christina

Thanks for the response and information. It's good to know how you have approached it as I had a potential client last week stating they kept their own books and got an accountant to submit the SAR and I wasn't sure on what the checking process was with regards to the integrity of the bookkeeping. I can't do SA at the moment anyway but it got me thinking as hopefully I'll be offering this service from next month. Good luck with your business!

Cheers

Dean

 

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