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• # 111907
• Sun 20 Dec 2015 06:23 PM

Hello - This is the first time I have been on here....  I am currently studying through the ICB syllabuses and i'm just about to take the BA4 exam and working towards getting my practice licence so I can fully submit tax returns on behalf of my sole trader clients.  I currently submit their CIS returns and have the necessary HMRC Agents log in for that but one of my clients now needs to register for VAT - can I register as a VAT agent with HMRC without my practice licence or is the VAT registration more like the self assessment registration and you need a practice licence to do this??  I currently submit VAT returns for a couple of LTD companies that I work for but that is through there own log ins rather than as an agent.  I've only been doing the books for a couple of sole trader clients since April this year so getting my licence before the January 2017 submission deadline isn't a problem but now this wildcard has popped up....

Any help or advise would be gratefully received - ringing HMRC takes half a day....!

Many thanks

Emma

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• # 111920
• Tue 22 Dec 2015 05:52 PM

As far as I was aware if you are working directly for the public as a bookkeeper in any capacity then you should have a practice licence and insurance and be complying with MLR regulations. If you are "doing the books for a couple of sole trader clients" I think this is still classed as working for the public. Furthermore according to the information here you are supposed to be at least an associate to get a practice licence, I vaguely remember reading somewhere that affiliates should only do supervised work?

can anyone else back up my understanding or have I got it wrong?

• Carol

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• # 111923
• Tue 22 Dec 2015 09:14 PM

Carol is correct in what she has said if you are doing any work under the ICB banner.

However, as bookkeeping is not a complusory regulated profession anyone can set up in business as a bookkeeper and just register with HMRC for MLR purposes. They would also require Professional Indemnity Insurance to be in place.

Emma, do you have a practice licence with some other official body?

This is the sort of thing that regulated bookkeepers/accountants are up against all the time - it is time that somebody made it a regulated profession!

• A clever person solves a problem.

  A wise person avoids it.

  Albert Enstein

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• # 111924
• Tue 22 Dec 2015 09:50 PM

MM Bookkeeping said:

“

Carol is correct in what she has said if you are doing any work under the ICB banner.

However, as bookkeeping is not a complusory regulated profession anyone can set up in business as a bookkeeper and just register with HMRC for MLR purposes. They would also require Professional Indemnity Insurance to be in place.

Emma, do you have a practice licence with some other official body?

This is the sort of thing that regulated bookkeepers/accountants are up against all the time - it is time that somebody made it a regulated profession!

”

 Hello and thank you for your reply. I don't have a practice licence with another body I am working towards getting it with ICB. I have worked in accounts for 15 years as a fully employed person but I now have my own business (nothing to do with accounts) and this business doing more admin type work however, two people that used to do work for the company I worked for asked if I would process there invoices for them on a regular basis rather than them ending up with a box full at year end to wade through - they are both in construction hence me doing the monthly CIS return for them. I will only be submitting the tax returns if I get the licence in time which I don't envisage there being a problem getting - up to now they have done everything themselves. Failing that I will hand over the organised paperwork to the accountant that has submitted my own accounts for the last two years.

I'm not trying to do anything wrong or unregulated hence asking the question and I'm not working under the ICB banner as I don't ever mention it.

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• # 111926
• Wed 23 Dec 2015 07:46 AM

I think that what you are doing is classed as bookkeeping, as you are recording financial information. Taking the ICB out of the equation you should at the very least be registered with HMRC  for MLR. However as you are part of the ICB you should also be complying with their Professional Conduct Regulations; 

Public Practice

27. A member may supply services to the public provided that:

a)    he is qualified so to practice and holds a current Practice Licence granted by the Institute, which includes a current AML Supervisory Licence

b)    if he is supervised for AML purposes by another supervisory body then details have been notified to the Institute by the member and agreed by the Institute

c)    he holds a valid policy of professional indemnity insurance against claims for professional negligence appropriate to the size of the business but in any case not less than £50,000.

It is misconduct for a member to supply bookkeeping services to the public other than in compliance with this rule.

Therefore I don't think you should be doing what you are doing. It's just my opinion of the rules but If I were you I'd seek some guidance from the ICB. 

• Carol

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• # 111927
• Wed 23 Dec 2015 11:57 AM

Precisely the point I was trying to make Carol!

Emma - you would be better to contact ICB and have all this confirmed.

After all, why should we (regulated bookkeepers) go to the trouble of getting Practice Licence, PI Insurance, register with ICO for Data Protection etc - all at a financial cost - when you don't?

This is not fair on the client(s) either as you could be making errors that is costing them financially. You have no insurance so they could possibly sue you personally!

This is like saying 'Oh I have a provisonal driving licence I'll just use Mum's car to go shopping on my own then have an accident with a 3rd party. You have no insurance and should not have been driving without supervision anyway until having passed the full driving test!

I give up!

• A clever person solves a problem.

  A wise person avoids it.

  Albert Enstein

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• # 111928
• Wed 23 Dec 2015 01:15 PM

MM Bookkeeping said:

“

Precisely the point I was trying to make Carol!

Emma - you would be better to contact ICB and have all this confirmed.

After all, why should we (regulated bookkeepers) go to the trouble of getting Practice Licence, PI Insurance, register with ICO for Data Protection etc - all at a financial cost - when you don't?

This is not fair on the client(s) either as you could be making errors that is costing them financially. You have no insurance so they could possibly sue you personally!

This is like saying 'Oh I have a provisonal driving licence I'll just use Mum's car to go shopping on my own then have an accident with a 3rd party. You have no insurance and should not have been driving without supervision anyway until having passed the full driving test!

I give up!
”

I apologise that you seem to have taken offence at my post!!  I am not trying to be an unregulated book-keeper and you have taken my post completely wrongly.  I am not providing any figures to anyone that can cost them financially I am merely collating paperwork and if I am not able to submit the return due to not having my practice licence through - which incidently i could have got via experience and not had to do all the exams but chose to go through the exam route to dot all the I's and cross all the T's, hence I am also spending a fortune to be regulated! - then the accounts will be going to the accountant who will check and submit the paperwork.  The clients can go back to doing their own collation... and I will just continue to deal with their 'non-figure' related admin.

Quite honestly I thought I was asking advice from a friendly forum but clearly that is not the case and i won't make the mistake again!!

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• # 111929
• Wed 23 Dec 2015 01:16 PM

Carol-Fed said:

“

I think that what you are doing is classed as bookkeeping, as you are recording financial information. Taking the ICB out of the equation you should at the very least be registered with HMRC  for MLR. However as you are part of the ICB you should also be complying with their Professional Conduct Regulations; 

Public Practice

27. A member may supply services to the public provided that:

a)    he is qualified so to practice and holds a current Practice Licence granted by the Institute, which includes a current AML Supervisory Licence

b)    if he is supervised for AML purposes by another supervisory body then details have been notified to the Institute by the member and agreed by the Institute

c)    he holds a valid policy of professional indemnity insurance against claims for professional negligence appropriate to the size of the business but in any case not less than £50,000.

It is misconduct for a member to supply bookkeeping services to the public other than in compliance with this rule.

 

Therefore I don't think you should be doing what you are doing. It's just my opinion of the rules but If I were you I'd seek some guidance from the ICB. 

 

”

 Thank you for your advice Carol - I won't be doing anything further until the ink is dried on all the necessary licences etc.....

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